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Print|Email=20

Do=20 More Cops Equal Less Crime?

Or do the stats disprove the rhetoric?

Steve Chapman | November 12, 2007

The Democratic theme song is "Happy Days Are = Here=20 Again," and nowhere do Democrats think that axiom applies better = than in the=20 realm of fighting crime. They recall that thanks to legislation passed = in 1994,=20 Bill Clinton put 100,000 = new cops=20 on the street, and the result was an abatement of violence. Give = Democrats their=20 way, they suggest, and we can repeat that success.

Leading the charge is Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., who sponsored that bill = and is=20 pushing legislation to hire another 50,000 officers, at a cost of $3.6 = billion=20 over six years, under the Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) = program.=20 He says it was = because of=20 the last round of hiring that "murder and violent crime rates went down = eight=20 years in a row."

It's hard to find Democrats who differ. Among his co-sponsors are = fellow=20 presidential candidates Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and Christopher = Dodd. The=20 House has already passed a similar measure.

But anyone who expects this approach to work as promised should take = a closer=20 look at what actually happened the last time. In the first place, the = 1994 bill=20 didn't make good on its goal of adding 100,000 cops to the streets. A = study=20 commissioned by the National Institute of Justice estimated it produced = a net=20 increase of just 82,000, while allowing that it might have been as few = as=20 69,000.

Those numbers aside, the retreat of lawlessness began before any of = those new=20 police were sworn in. The murder rate peaked in 1991, and property crime = began a=20 steady decline in the mid-1970s. Biden blames the demise of federal = hiring=20 grants two years ago for the rise in violent crime in 2005 and 2006. But = the=20 murder rate has been essentially stable since 1999, with only minor = year-to-year=20 variations. The overall crime rate, meanwhile, continued to fall over = the last=20 two years.

Some criminologists find no evidence that the new cops did anything = to lower=20 the level of mayhem. A study by John Worrall and Tomislav Kovandzic of = the=20 University of Texas at Dallas, published this year in the journal = Criminology,=20 concluded that "COPS grants had no discernible effect on serious crime." = A 2005=20 report by the Government Accountability Office disagreed, but said the = effect=20 was very small. About 95 percent of the decline in crime in the 1990s, = it said,=20 was attributable to other factors.

We shouldn't be surprised that adding all those patrol officers would = produce=20 little or no improvement. Given the multiple shifts, vacation and sick = days, the=20 additional number of personnel on the street at any given moment is only = about=20 10,000, spread across a nation of 300 million people. That's fewer than = one=20 extra cop per local police department.

Flooding the zone in high-crime areas might yield significant = results. But=20 the money also wasn't targeted at those cities with the worst crime. It = was=20 allocated, with majestic impartiality, among places that are dangerous = and=20 places that are safe.

As Worrall and Kovandzic note, the average COPS hiring grant was = practically=20 a rounding error, amounting to about one half of one percent of a = typical=20 department's annual budget. Expecting that amount of money to have a = dramatic=20 effect on crime is like losing a pound and thinking you'll need to have = all your=20 pants taken in.

"If you doubled the size of the police force," Worrall told me, = "you'd expect=20 crime to decline. But at this level, it's not enough to make a = noticeable=20 difference."

The sponsors suggest the Bush administration has abdicated its = crime-fighting=20 duties by not providing funds for additional hiring. What they = conveniently=20 forget is that the program was supposed to be a temporary boost rather = than a=20 permanent obligation. Local law enforcement has historically been the=20 responsibility of cities and counties, not the federal government.

If more cops really translate into safer streets, you would think = local=20 taxpayers would be more than willing to bear the expense. But if they = don't=20 think their safety is worth what it costs, why should the rest of us = foot the=20 bill? The idea that residents of one city can finance their police = operations at=20 someone else's expense is a fraud. Everyone gets federal money from the = COPS=20 program, but everyone also pays for it.

In the case of a new version of the program, what we'd have to pay is = clear.=20 What we'd get back is not.

Reason needs your support. Please donate = today!

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Try=20 Reason's award-winning print edition today! Your first issue is FREE if = you are=20 not completely satisfied.

See=20 all 76 comments | Leave=20 a comment

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that = they be=20 civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for=20 comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not=20 represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the = right to=20 delete any comment for any reason at any time.

M|11.12.07 @=20 7:07AM|#

"If you doubled the size of the police force," Worrall told me, = "you'd=20 expect crime to decline. But at this level, it's not enough to make a=20 noticeable difference."

Depends how you define crime.

=20

Guy Montag|11.12.07 @=20 7:19AM|#

Depends how you define crime.

It also depends heavily = on what=20 number you began with, plus lots of other things, like where they are=20 concentrated, what they are working on (to your point), etc.

If = you=20 "double" a shift of 5 to 10 and all they are doing is enforcing HOV = restrictions=20 one can generate a bunch of lame, but positive, numbers.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 7:23AM|#

Maybe they need to pay for all those 'MADD' road blocks.

=20

M|11.12.07 @=20 7:33AM|#

I was thinking particularly of under-reported copogenic crime.

=20

Guy Montag|11.12.07 @=20 7:39AM|#

Yea, M, I was thinking that too.

=20

M|11.12.07 @=20 7:44AM|#

Guy - Ah. Well, your comment recalled also how many statutes = prohibiting=20 "civilians'" innocuous, benign, or laudatory conduct it is cops' sworn = to=20 enforce.

=20

Guy Montag|11.12.07 @=20 7:57AM|#

Something similar came up when I met Christopher Hitchens. We both = were in=20 agreement that a lot of people and leaders were not taking the GWOT = seriously. I=20 added that the Left seems to think that GWOT means we need a lot more = union cops=20 and fire fighters, just an excuse to help out their union buddies and = suppliers.=20 I d not recall, but I MUST have mentioned the old stand-by "if we need = so many=20 more cops why do I keep getting speeding tickets"?

=20

|11.12.07 @ 8:23AM|#

"We both were in agreement that a lot of people and leaders were not = taking=20 the GWOT seriously. "

This is off-topic, and might even be = considered a=20 threadjack attempt, but here goes: When is Reason going to do an article = on all=20 of the good progress in Iraq? The surge is working. The mood has shifted = from=20 despair to hope over here.

I can understand opposing US = involvement over=20 here, but Reason ought to at least take a look at the accumulating good = news if=20 only to sneer that it is all just an illusion built on lies.

=20

Guy Montag|11.12.07 @=20 8:31AM|#

wayne,

No group of people can be without flaw, unless it is = the group=20 I let hang around me :)

Truth is, Reason would be reporting the=20 'quagmire' in North Aftica or Normandy in exactly the same way they are=20 reporting the GWOT. Don't even get me started on the Battle of the = Bulge. For a=20 glimpse into how a war movie would have been chosen and written by the = Reason=20 staff, see "A Bridge Too Far".

=20

|11.12.07 @ 9:05AM|#

We need more cops to administer breathalyzer tests to high school = kids at=20 school functions. We need more cops to wander around in busy = intersections=20 peeking through the windshields of cars to see if the occupants are = buckled up.=20 We need more cops to cruise around on trash day to see if people are = complying=20 with recycling rules. We need more cops to escort (at high speed) and = defend=20 "high value government assets."

et c, et c......

=20

|11.12.07 @ 9:19AM|#

Truth is, Reason would be reporting the 'quagmire' in North = Aftica or=20 Normandy in exactly the same way they are reporting the GWOT. Don't even = get me=20 started on the Battle of the Bulge.

Maybe your opponents = would take=20 your positions more seriously of you chilled out on the bad World Ward = II=20 analogies?

=20

|11.12.07 @ 9:21AM|#

And btw, the right pretty much uses the "GWOT" as an excuse to build = more=20 big-ticket cold war era military toys to help out their military = contractor=20 buddies.

=20

ed|11.12.07 @ = 9:27AM|#

When is Reason going to do an article on all of the good progress = in=20 Iraq?

I'm pretty sure the answer to that question is = "never." It's a=20 truism in journalism that good news is never as interesting as bad. Most = of the=20 stories here slant toward the negative, the result being that = libertarianism is=20 perceived by outsiders as a pessimistic, sarcastic political = movement.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 9:32AM|#

Most of the stories here slant toward the negative, the result = being that=20 libertarianism is perceived by outsiders as a pessimistic, sarcastic = political=20 movement.

I wasn't born pessimistic or sarcastic, the = government=20 made that way...

=20

|11.12.07 @ 9:33AM|#

Ah, whining about "the good news from Iraq."

It's like 2003, = 2004,=20 2005, and 2006 all over again.

=20

joe|11.12.07 @=20 9:35AM|#

The surge is working.

There was a political deal = among Sunni=20 and Shiite parties, ending the insurgency and passing an oil = deal?

You'd=20 think we would have seen something in the news about that.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 9:36AM|#

Never underestimate the ability of die-hard war supporters to move = the goal=20 post.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 9:43AM|#

I became a policeman in 1994 in on of the cities which received the = COPS=20 money. I have a few observations:

1. The COPS grant only provided = us with=20 an addition 4 policemen -- and the city responded by hiring 4 less = policemen=20 that year from its own coffers.

2. COPS/ DWI Road Blocks, DARE, = these are=20 all PC bulls**t programs. We don't like them and know they don't reduce = crime,=20 but whenever the federal cash cow decides to give some milk, every city = says its=20 hungry.

3. "community policing" is a euphemism for what used to = be called=20 "patrol." Problem is, that we're so busy answering 911 calls all day, = there's no=20 time for patrol anymore.

4. Every officer I worked with admitted = that the=20 war on drugs was useless. When there's a demand, they will be a=20 supply.

5. Let's all remember that police and fire departments = have been=20 the front lines for all of the social experiments in our country and = that has a=20 lot to do with the poor moral (and behavior) from many officers. When = you have=20 federal judges saying that a police officers height and weight don't = matter to=20 propel a belief that anyone with who means well, can do that job -- well = that's=20 just a fantasy, or rather a nightmare we're all forced to live.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 9:48AM|#

"You'd think we would have seen something in the news about=20 that.
"

You mean like today's news account about mortar and = rocket=20 attacks at a 21 month low?

=20

|11.12.07 @ 9:52AM|#

"...and passing an oil deal?"

No, the war is "about oil". The = US has=20 already taken all the oil. George Bush and Dick Cheney have all of the = oil.=20 There is no oil left in Iraq to deal over.

=20

Episiarch|11.12.07 = @=20 9:54AM|#

Can we not threadjack this cop thread into Iraq? = Maybe?

Every=20 officer I worked with admitted that the war on drugs was useless. When = there's a=20 demand, they will be a supply.

So why don't you all quietly = refuse=20 to enforce?

=20

|11.12.07 @ 9:55AM|#

You mean like today's news account about mortar and rocket = attacks at a=20 21 month low?

Remember when the President spent his State of = the=20 Union Address talking about how the purpose of the surge was to lower = mortar and=20 rocket attacks?

=20

|11.12.07 @ 9:57AM|#

You mean like today's news account about mortar and rocket = attacks at a=20 21 month low?

Random fact cherry-picking!

Drink!

=20

|11.12.07 @ 9:58AM|#

"Can we not threadjack this cop thread into Iraq? Maybe?"

I = will cease=20 and desist, as the cops say.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:01AM|#

Steve,

I don't know what type of community you worked in, but = I live=20 in the city that saw the largest drop in crime of any American city = during the=20 1990s. It's also the city where the community policing concept was first = dreamed=20 up and implemented - it was once called the Middlesex Strategy, after = Middlesex=20 County, Massachusetts.

Thanks to the COPS program, the city was = able to=20 expand to the rolls of the police force to the largest count in the = city's=20 history, and those additional police were used mainly for foot patrols = through=20 neighborhoods.

The results have been inarguable. It's not = surprising that=20 your community's decision to use the program just as a budget offset = didn't have=20 an impact on crime, and left you with no more staffing to get ahead of = the=20 "putting our fires" curve, but where it has been used as intended, the = results=20 have been quite different.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:02AM|#

Joe,

I realize that reduced violence in Iraq is not good news = for you.=20 I expect you to continue your mantra of despair until Hillary is the = commander=20 in chief, at which point you probably will celebrate good news, as good=20 news.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:07AM|#

"Good news from Iraq" would be when the number of U.S. troops and = mercenaries=20 declines from the current 300,000+ to less than 50,000. Excuse me, when = is that=20 going to happen? If our WWII buffs checked their calendars, they might = notice=20 that the defeat of the Axis powers--Germany, Italy, and Japan--took less = four=20 years. After close to five years of the war against the "axis of evil," = we're=20 maybe half way to subdueing one of them.

Oh, and re 100,000 cops = on the=20 streets. No, it didn't do much to reduce crime, but it did wonders to = reduce=20 Democratic vulnerability on the "soft on crime" issue. Sort of like = Bush's=20 prescription drug program, except a lot cheaper. Politics! Ya gotta love = it!

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:09AM|#

Yawn.

wayne, I don't think you have any idea how little the = yapping of=20 war supporters about good news in Iraq matters to me.

It's = November 2006.=20 Being told that we've turned the corner in Iraq, AGAIN, by the same = people=20 who've been telling me that for five years concerns me about as much as = an email=20 from a former officeholder in Nigeria who needs to move some money out = of the=20 country.

If you have so certain about the direction of the Iraq = War, why=20 are you so confident Hillary Clinton is going to be the next president, = and not=20 somebody who supports the war?

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:11AM|#

"Good news from Iraq" would be when the number of U.S. troops and = mercenaries declines from the current 300,000+ to less than=20 50,000.

Amen. There is no "good news" until our troops are = out of=20 that shithole.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:14AM|#

NPR made some odd sounds about things turning around somewhat in Iraq = this=20 morning. That may not mean anything, but that's unexpected news from an=20 unexpected source. They also said that the Iraq war is no longer polling = very=20 high for either party. We are a fickle, fickle people.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:14AM|#

This time, in English.

wayne, if you are so certain that we've = turned=20 the corner in Iraq - this time for real! - then why are you so confident = that=20 the next president will be a Democrat who is running against the war, = rather=20 than a Republic who has supported it all along?

Hey, Rocky, watch = me pull=20 a rabbit out of my hat!

=20

Episiarch|11.12.07 = @=20 10:16AM|#

Hey, Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my=20 hat!

A-gain?

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:17AM|#

"Amen. There is no "good news" until our troops are out of that=20 shithole."

And this kind of progress moves that goal closer.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:17AM|#

If you have so certain about the direction of the Iraq War, why = are you=20 so confident Hillary Clinton is going to be the next president, and not = somebody=20 who supports the war?

Hey Captain Loaded-Question, since = when=20 doesn't Hillary support the war?

=20

Syloson of Samos|11.12.07 @=20 10:17AM|#

Maybe the Reason staff can put up a permanent (rolling?) Iraq = thread?

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:22AM|#

Taktix,

For the past two years or so. Don't you read the = papers, or=20 the internets, or anything?

=20

Rhywun|11.12.07=20 @ 10:23AM|#

I don't know what NYC did with any "COPS" money, but I'm betting it = didn't=20 put it into foot patrols. In ten years living here I have seen a cop = walking=20 down the street maybe twice (not counting special events which are = flooded with=20 cops just standing around). They bitch and moan all the time about not = getting=20 any respect from "citizens", but would never deign to get out of their = cars and=20 actually mingle with them once in a while.

=20

Syloson of Samos|11.12.07 @=20 10:23AM|#

wayne,

BTW, the best thing for American liberty is for things = to go=20 well enough in Iraq for U.S. soldiers to come home. If the civil war = there calms=20 down enough for that to happen, well, great.

=20

The Tide Has Turned! = Really!|11.12.07 @ 10:26AM|#

"The President has said that the tide has turned, and he expresses = confidence=20 that we will achieve victory. And of course the President believes that. = That's=20 the whole purpose of our efforts." -- Ari Fleischer, 2003

"We're handing over = authority to=20 a sovereign Iraqi government; we're encouraging more international = support for=20 the Iraqi transition; we're helping the Iraqis take responsibility for = their own=20 security; we're continuing to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure; and we are = moving=20 toward free elections. A turning point will come in less than two = weeks." - George W. Bush, 2004

"When it comes to = fighting the=20 threats of our world, when it comes to making America safer, when it = comes to=20 spreading the peace, we're turning a corner, and we're not turning = back." -- George W. Bush, 2004

"A new Iraqi government = represents=20 a strategic opportunity for America - and the whole world, for that = matter. ...=20 This is a - we believe this is a turning point for the Iraqi citizens, = and it's=20 a new chapter in our partnership." -- George W. Bush, 2006

"I think - tide turning - = see, as I=20 remember - I was raised in the desert, but tides kind of - it's easy to = see a=20 tide turn - did I say those words?"George W. Bush, 2006

The more things = change...

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:35AM|#

"They bitch and moan all the time about not getting any respect from=20 "citizens", but would never deign to get out of their cars and actually = mingle=20 with them once in a while."

Are you nuts? It's scary out there, = with all=20 those crazy civilians obstructing the sidewalk at two in the = morning.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:35AM|#

I can remember being told how delusional I was being for not = recognizing how=20 imminent victory was on Purple Finger Day, too.

Attacks go up, = attacks go=20 down. Deaths go up, deaths go down.

The conditions that might = allow for=20 stability and security in Iraq - the new, dumbed-down definitnion of = victory -=20 require, as President Bush and his mouthpieces told us so many times, a=20 political breakthrough among Iraqis. There is no military solution, only = a=20 political one.

War supporters at least pretended to recognize = this after=20 the 2005 elections, and agains when describing the purpose of the surge. = Now it=20 appears we're back to where we were after Fallajua and Ramadi - pointing = to=20 short-term reductions in the enemy's ability to operate after a major,=20 unsustainable military offensive as evidence that the war is being = won.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:37AM|#

There are cops walking around all over my city.

Did I mention = that it=20 had the largest decrease in crime of any city in American during the = 1990s, was=20 the birthplace of the Community Policing strategy, and used its COPS = money to=20 put community police into neighborhoods as the program intended?

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:39AM|#

joe, It's great that crime is declining in your neck of the woods. I, = OTOH,=20 live in Detroit, MI. So you'll excuse me if I don't share your optimism. = Crime=20 is going up. Fortunately we have a Democtatic mayor, Governor and state = house,=20 so it'll all get fixed shortly. ;-)

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:40AM|#

Oh, and as in Boston - the other city pointed to as a great community = policing success story - the decline in crime coincided with a marked=20 improvement in communty-police relations.

If you ask the cops, = they'll=20 tell you that that improvement was key to the reduction in crime, as = they both=20 came to know the neighborhoods and the people there much better, = allowing them=20 to better understand how to make them safe; and greatly improved the = willingness=20 of the public to provide information and assistance to the police.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:43AM|#

J sub D,

Community policing can work anywhere. You just need = the will=20 among the politicians and police to make it work.

William Bratton = - the=20 brilliant, professional, community-oriented chief that Rudy Guiliani = fired in=20 favor of Bernie Kerick - is turning the LAPD around, and that's perhaps = the most=20 hostile, occupation-oriented department in the country.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:43AM|#

Oh yeah, population is going in the reverse direction too. Funny how = that=20 works. But the mayor's got 20 officers to protect him and his family. = They get=20 lot's of overtime. Many are his High School buddies. It is hilarious if = you=20 don't live or work here.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:48AM|#

And we're STILL under court ordered federal oversight because we are = unable=20 to fix the department. I'm opposed to privatizing police services, but = if you=20 want to do the experiment, go 1 mile north of Windsor, Ontario. We're = getting=20 desperate here. I read the national stats, and overall the country has = been=20 getting safer for quite some time. Even Detroit is better now than in = the '70s.=20 But I've got to say, it's been discouraging lately.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 10:55AM|#

J Sub D,

Would you say Detroit is finally turning a=20 corner?

*ducks, runs away*

=20

|11.12.07 @ 11:06AM|#

" Even Detroit is better now than in the '70s. "

Eventually, = you run=20 out of abandoned buildings to torch.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 11:10AM|#

J sub D,

Detroit is a tough case, no question.

If it's = any=20 condolence, my city endured even worse economic decline and population = decline,=20 with the unemployment rate hitting an Iraq-like 30% in the = 1980s.

There's=20 a lot stacked up against Detroit, no question.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 11:12AM|#

Economics. Better economy, fewer crimes.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 11:15AM|#

Orlando, FL has proven that you can have more cops, more agencies and = generally more boots on the street, but if they spend their time playing = grabass=20 with strippers and arresting newspaper employees, you'll end up with a = high crime rate, especially violent crime.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 11:15AM|#

I went to Detroit, Rock City, to watch the Bucs and the Lions play = (back when=20 we were both in the Norris Division), and fisticuffs were offered to me = solely=20 because I was wearing a Bucs jersey. We lost, incidentally. That same = jersey was=20 safe in Chicago and in Minneapolis. Did I mention that I had kids with = me when=20 this happened and said not a word to provoke anyone? Lovely town.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 11:21AM|#

Wait, there are still people in Detroit!?

=20

|11.12.07 @ 11:26AM|#

Chapman's piece is a great example of lying with = statistics.

For=20 example, Given the multiple shifts, vacation and sick days, the = additional=20 number of personnel on the street at any given moment is only about = 10,000,=20 spread across a nation of 300 million people. That's fewer than one = extra cop=20 per local police department.

Were COPS grants evenly spread = across=20 each of America's police departments? Was the decline in crime caused by = reductions in small towns and surburbs? A better analysis would look at = the=20 number of police added to the departments that received grants, or to = the=20 departments in cities that saw major declines in crime.

As = Worrall=20 and Kovandzic note, the average COPS hiring grant was practically a = rounding=20 error, amounting to about one half of one percent of a typical = department's=20 annual budget. What's a "typical department?" Are we dividing the = total=20 money by the total number of police departments in the country again? = Why are we=20 doing that?

And then there's the difference between a police = department's=20 total budget and its staffing budget. Cruisers, ammunition, and other = equipment=20 are expensive. Retirement benefits of expensive. A better analysis would = have=20 looked at the % increase this represented in the payroll costs of = patrolmen in=20 cities that received money through the program.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 11:29AM|#

Cesar,

Sure there are. Haven't you ever seen The Crow = or=20 Robocop?

=20

|11.12.07 @ 11:30AM|#

I, OTOH, live in Detroit, MI.

Is Captain Morgan's = Club de=20 Elegance on Jefferson still open? Great memories.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 11:32AM|#

That's what you get when you refuse to build a transit system.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 11:59AM|#

Detriot will be safe and wonderful once Hallib....I mean Omni = Consumer=20 Products takes over and creates Robocop.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 12:31PM|#

Sentencing has a much bigger effect on crime rates because cops come = after=20 the fact. It would take an absurd concentration to really affect the = crime rate=20 by stopping them in the act.

Laws such as three strikes, however, = do=20 reduce the criminal population on the streets.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 12:36PM|#

That's old-fashioned thinking - that cops come "after the = fact."

It's=20 been proven wrong by the success of community policing in cities = throughout the=20 country.

=20

Paul|11.12.07 @ = 12:39PM|#

Hey Captain Loaded-Question, since when doesn't Hillary support = the=20 war?

When she gives a speech at Yearly Kos. Then I suspect = that when=20 she gets in front of the American Legion...

Do try to remember that = Hillary is=20 still a Clinton.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 1:39PM|#

From what I have heard rapid apprehension is one of the biggest = deterrents to=20 crime. Moreso than severity of punishment.

To the extent that = community=20 policing aids rapid apprehension* then it will likely be seen as a = success.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 1:57PM|#

Do try to remember that Hillary is still a = Clinton.

That=20 depends on how you define "is". ;-)

=20

R C Dean|11.12.07 = @=20 3:20PM|#

Non sequitur of the year nominee:

That's what you get when = you=20 refuse to build a transit system.

WTF?

=20

|11.12.07 @ 3:38PM|#

Detroit, RC. No transit system - ideological aversion to a transit = system,=20 for decades - and now look at it. It's almost as bad as Gary, Indiana. = Which=20 also doesn't have a transit system.

COINCIDENCE?!!?

=20

|11.12.07 @ 3:40PM|#

Isaac B,

Rapid apprehension is promoted through community = policing in=20 two ways:

the decent people are more cooperative, as they don't = see the=20 police as the enemy, or feel loyalty towards criminals, and

the = police=20 come to know who's who and who's into what, so start out a couple steps=20 ahead.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 4:03PM|#

Obviously, there can be a positive correlation between criminal = apprehensions=20 and the number of cops on duty in normally high crime areas. But where I = live,=20 in a low-crime area of suburban Philadelphia, some of the local police=20 departments, which have grown like crabgrass, seem to spend all their = time=20 writing traffic tickets, catching kids for underage drinking, crashing = high=20 school parties in pursuit of the latter activity, holding lockdowns in = the local=20 schools, and generally tormenting the citizens of the township in which = they=20 have jurisdiction. Nobody feels any safer or secure from all this. Quite = the=20 contrary, people feel harassed, threatened, and apprehensive about the=20 overwhelming police presence in an otherwise pleasant and perfectly safe = environment.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 4:58PM|#

joe

I tend to agree. In fact I was thinking of adding a = footnote that=20 said essentially the same things as you did in your second para (in fact = I=20 neglected to delete the asterisk). Trouble was I couldn't say it with = the=20 brevity you managed.

Until police forces get back to Sir Robert = Peel's=20 Nine Principles there's not much hope. They can call things by all kinds = of=20 fancy names but until the attitudes of cops change nothing = will.

I can't=20 be bothered to provide a link. Those of you who are not familiar with = Sir Robert=20 Peel's Nine Principles, let google be your guide.

=20

R C Dean|11.12.07 = @=20 5:55PM|#

It's almost as bad as Gary, Indiana. Which also doesn't have a = transit=20 system.

Not to be confused with D.C., which does have a very = nice=20 transit system.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 6:26PM|#

R C,

I believe that joe was actually joking--this time--but I = believe=20 you just ripped his spine out =E0 la the Predator with that one. = Ouch.

The=20 Metro was a very nice ride when I worked in D.C. (1995). And massively,=20 massively subsidized, too.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 6:54PM|#

DC in 2007 is a model of redevelopment, with developers flooding in = and=20 turning formerly Detroit-ish blocks and neighborhoods into hip and = expensive=20 yuppie districts. Sorry, RC, the Market hath spoken, and you're 20 years = out of=20 date.

I think this is one of those situations of people who don't = know=20 very much about cities thinking they have a good idea about what they're = like=20 because of what they see on the television.

=20

|11.12.07 @ 6:56PM|#

Isaac B,

I've always wanted to ask some of the people who put = together=20 the "Middlesex Strategy" if they were inspired by Peel, because 8 of = those 9=20 could come out of a DoJ Community Policing brochure.

=20

Paul|11.13.07 @ = 1:33AM|#

is a model of redevelopment, with developers flooding in and = turning=20 formerly Detroit-ish blocks and neighborhoods into hip and expensive = yuppie=20 districts. Sorry, RC, the Market hath spoken, and you're 20 years out of = date.

Hmm, I don't smell the market on this one, I smell = government=20 handouts to developers. Mercenaries, really.

government Official: = here's=20 some money, go kick out the undesirables.

"the market": No = problem, but=20 we might need a little Eminent Domain help, if you get my=20 drift.

Government Official: You know the people don't like=20 that.

"The Market": I hear your campaign could use some help. I'm = prepared to donate a significant amount to your campaign. But I say = again, we=20 may need a little eminent domain help.

=20

|11.13.07 @ 2:42AM|#

"US military reversing Iraq troop surge "

I = know this=20 means nothing to you state department guys, but to me this looks like=20 progress...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071113/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/= iraq_security_gains

=20

|11.13.07 @ 9:51AM|#

"Sorry, RC, the Market hath spoken,"

No, the = speculators have=20 spoken. Last I checked, the market rejected much of the development in = the last=20 5 years.

=20

Latest Articles on Reason Online

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